Where do you draw the line?

Jack goes to his fathers once a fortnight.
friday evening till sunday afternoon o a school week.
and we split holidays.
(that was his agreement he set up with his lawyer).

Now as you all know it is the easter holidays,
jack was supposed to go to his dads for one week.
he lasted 2 days and had to bring him home becuase he was playing up too much.
then i felt jack was being good for the time he was here so i phoned his dad and sugested he go to him from the last friday to the monday.
his dad was ok with this.
i had a phone call friday night it was jacks dad asking me to ‘Have a go’ at jack becuase he wasnt eating his noodles.
then this morning we get a phone call saying jack was comming back to us ASAP becuase he had been messing around in superglue and had stuck his hand to his face.
Instead of his dad taking him to the hospital or attemtping to use warm soapy water.
his dad ripped jacks hand away from his face taking away skin.

What the hell do i do people becuase this is driving me insane.
please any suggestions would be helpfull.

First and foremost comes Jack’s happiness, security and his right to know his Dad. He’s too young to make up his mind about the last thing so I believe you should maintain at least a small relationship until he can.
From what you say, Jack’s dad isn’t up to the task of looking after him or motivating him. Maybe Jack doesn’t particularly like being at his dads and his dad doesn’t really enjoy having him around either. You need to carefully talk to both of them about this and mutually work out a new way of doing things. Then if you want to, tell the courts/lawyers what you have both decided.

First and foremost comes Jack’s happiness, security and his right to know his Dad. He’s too young to make up his mind about the last thing so I believe you should maintain at least a small relationship until he can.
From what you say, Jack’s dad isn’t up to the task of looking after him or motivating him. Maybe Jack doesn’t particularly like being at his dads and his dad doesn’t really enjoy having him around either.

i agree to this point. Then Jacks PARENTS need to discuss (with your support but not interference) what to do.
no offence Andy, but ultimately in law you dont count. apart from that Balrog is right.

under Re:L legislation, the only reason for Jack not seeing his dad is if there is a safety/danger, and the superglue thing sounds like a parental panic. are you SURE you would not do the same thing in a panic?

the main problem here seems to be the fathers inability to think of the dangers of superglue (or anything else possibly?) its his immaturity and irresponsibility you need to overcome, not his sons right to see him.

dont take any of that as a criticism mate, you are doing great. :slight_smile:

Firstly, Jacks safety is paramount always but you need to temper what you say and how you act about “dad”… obvously if something happens to Jack you get in your car and sort it but in general terms you need to by kinda neutral about him really otherwise you influence the relationship between jack and his dad and could even spoil the relationship between you and jack as jack grows up and forms his own opinions… if you do it well and right and Jack will form a good relationship with you and form a relationship with is father that will be wholly dependant on his father. Does that make sense :confused: , what I’m trying to get at is that you send Jack over to his dad with the attitude that he should be good and have a nice time and you never bad mouth his real dad in front of Jack.
I don’t think that you should be handed the phone to tell jack off while he is there though, maybe give Dad a few pointers and suggest that if he can’t cope he should bring him back home but you need to be careful that you don’t create a situation that Jack gets brought home every time he’s naughty, if that does happen then maybe dad needs to have shorter visits and concentrate on making them more fun for jack so he wants to stay… say he goes there for the day and if he’s having fun then he stays the night as a treat:)

Despite what the court has said should happen it doesn’t sound like Jack or Dad are enjoying the current setup and it needs a bit of work, I’m no legal expert but if your doing this with a view to helping the relationship with them then i don’t really see how anyone can be upset by it.

Its a tough job being a step parent and I’m afraid that most of the time you can only back Helen up with talking to “Dad”, however tempting it is to “put him right” if you get directly involved its likely that it will go wrong and that won’t help anyone.

All imho but i hope some of this helps :slight_smile:

I hear what you all are saying and i agree totally and thats what should happen in an ideal world…helen will vouch for me that i am nothing but freindly with his dad and i never have disputes of anykind even if i feel he is out of order i just smile and agree.
we do have an agreement with lawyers which he breaks constantly.
i have no intentions of punishing jack at all i see it as an accident it was jacks dad that blew it out of proportion.
jack loves going to his dads and gets very upset when he is bought back and does not want to leave his dads.
but that is mainly becuase jack gets everything he wants sweets toys and all of the stuff he likes.
when he is naughty Usually his dad does nothing bar phone me to sort it.
in my eyes i belive he is trying to turn jack against me becuse i am aways the one to sort jack out not his dad but me so i think foul play.
but if i stop telling jack right from wrong he is going to be a terraway.
and if i carry on jack is going to hate me becuase his dad doesnt give him into trouble but i do.
also his dad has no rights to jack parentle wise as helen and jacks dad were never married.
TBH i have just as many rights to jack as his dad does the only difference is that his dad is blood.
as some but not all people will agree blood sometimes does not matter and TBH i think it is the one that provides stablility and a safe environment for the littleone is the one who is the father.
jacks behaviour is getting worse and i belive it is becuase i am the only one who is actually telling jack right from wrong.
helen does dicipline jack also which is why i think jacks behaviour is getting worse and jack enjoys going to his dads so much is becuase he gets away with murder at his dads but not here.
so do i stop the dicipline all together and wait till jack hurts himself or someone else.
i have tried talking to his dad saying there should be more stability and by that i mean the same rules must aplie here and at his dads he tells me that they do but if they did then surly we would have an esier time?
i belive jacks dad to be incompitant and incappible to look after a child.
but if i was to sujjest just waiting till jack is old eenough to decide if he wants to see his dad i would be the bad one and it would cause nothing but trouble.
one instance i took helen and jack down south to visit gaz and my parents.
jacks dad had people watching our house to see when we got back when jacks dad knew full well we were going to be back.
TBH i think he wants me to snap and fly for him so he has me thrown in jail.
even though i will not and i will hold my temper.
as hard as that is just now.
i dont know what to do.
lawyers i think will make no diffrence we have tried speaking to them and lettters have been sent and ignored that is all they can do.
i feel myself close to breaking point not with jack but with his dad.
i am nearing the end of sanity.

the thing is i have never stoped jacks dad seeing jack i told him he could see him whenever he wanted as long as i got a phonecall the night b4 just incase i had somthing planned for the next day. he has been distancing himself from jack for years now it used to be every weekend that he had jack then it went to every sat night so he could go out on the friday nite himself which i thought was fair enough then he moved it to every second weekend which i agreed to but the offer was still there he could get to see him whenever he wanted but he has no contact with jack at all untill he picks him up every second friday which i think messes with jacks head a little as he has no contact with him at all untill he turns up if jack comes to me and askes can i phone my dad i let him and he askes his dad can you come and take me out tomorrow he just gets a nock back from his dadwhat is so wrong with comming to get him for a few hours he doesnt work so i dont see what the problem is there jack breaks his heart when his dad says no to him and i have to pick up the pieces after. I have been through all this with his dad but he is the sort of bloke that just does not listen ive tried to get him to have same rules both houses so have H/V phycologists teachers the lot but he just does not do it its as if he wants strict routing (which jack needs same thing everyday) at mums and total chaos and fun at dads which doesnt work with a boy who has the problems jack has. It all seened to start when we found out that jacks dads G/F was pregnant i feel (i might be wrong) that he is pushing jack away and if this baby is a boy and doesnt have the problems jack has then his dad will distance himself from him which me personally it wouldnt bother me as he has me and andy to look after him but thats just a personal choice but for jacks sake i am angry if he does this as jack loves the bloke so much. This bringing him back when bad i let that go the last time as i feel it was a punishment and he deserved to be brought back that time but it is getting a habbit now and i dont think its right using us as a punishment i think that is wrong its as if he is trying to get jack to see us as the bad guys and its just not on jack has been home for a while now and i have had no bother off him at all he has been as good as gold when jack is bad we just deal with it like parents should why oh why cant jacks dad do this like a father should andy has acted more like a dad to jack than his own father has and i cant thank him enough for what he has done for jack he didnt need to come in and take on the father roll like he has but he has and i am so greatfull for all that andy has done for jack he is such a good dad to both holly and jack so if jacks dad is distancing himself (which i think he is) jack wont miss out on a father.

I used to fight to get jacks dad to see him but i just wont fight anymore i will let him go if thats what he wants but jack if he asks when he is older why his real dad aint around i will tell him the truth we never bad mouth jacks dad in frount of him as its his dad and he can make up his own mind on what he thinks of him.

and walter with the thing you said jacks dad has no rights to him at all under scottish law as we were never married i am the only one that has any rights to jacki have not given jacks dad any perental rights to him at all (mind you he has never asked for it).

Sorry for going on a bit but its really getting to us now on what to do as we have tried everything from pushing for his dad to see him to not contacting him at all about jack from one extream to another and nothing is working at all and i just dont know where to go from here.

Andy - I think you should get a child pyschologist to talk to Jack, it seems that he plays up whenever he goes to his Dads, yet he is fine when at home. This could be a form of pent up aggression that Jack has towards his Dad for things that have happened in the past.

As hard as it may be, a few joint events out, as an extended family may really help Jack. If the three parents can show a form of unity and show where the line is for Jack, then things may get easier. That would be my suggested approach, it may help all of you a lot. Jack gets to see the “line”, as does Jacks Dad, and you all get to see how each other deals with how Jack behaves.



We have sugested that b4 and the answer has been NO from his dads side its just this phoning andy when things go wrong when he has jack i dont think this is right and we have said its like jack is going to stay with an uncle and who is the dad here andy has more controll over jack than his own father his dad threatens jack with when he is bad " do you want me to phone andy" which i dont think is right when jack is bad here we deal with it time out on his bed and taking his tv away this works and we deal with it why cant he just do that and deal with the good and the bad when he is at his dads im scared its going to mess jack up more if this keeps up and i feel there is nothing i can do to stop it.

All three of you really need to agree about the displine of Jack. A consisent hand is so much better for the child. Steady limits make life so much easier. I can say this from experience with my step grand daughters.

My big question is what other hazards a wait Jack at his fathers? The child proofing of a house is very important.

very true.
and thank you all for your advice.
but jacks father lacks in common sense and is too high on his horse for use to have like days out ect.
i have sugested on numerus occasions that we go out to the local pub where there is alot of childrens facilities.
but the answer as always is no and he laughs at me for sugesting it.
he is far to immature.
he is no decent rolemodel for jack.
stability and a safe environment and a happy home is what jack needs not toys and sweets all the time he needs good attention and a firm hand when needed.
that is what i try to achive day inday out but his dad ruins it all the time.
jack alreaddy sees a child pshycologist but tbh they do not do anything.
social work do not do anything nor do the midwives or doctors.
i feel like im slamming my head against a brick wall.
i cant wait untill jack is 16-18 years old and can see who is providing the stable environment.

Its always easier for “dad” to play the good one and spoil Jack, been there, done that… Dads not the one who has to tell off Jack, Dad doesn’t have to take Jack to the doctor or the dentist, doesn’t have to hold his arm while he has an injection, drag him out of bed to get him to school, tell him off for not doing his homework… the list is long and it will get longer.

There isn’t an easy way through this Andy, you just have to play by the rules and not let it eat you up, you still have to do whats right even though “dad” comes along and breaks all the bounderys that you set… really.

One day the penny will drop with Jack. He will realise why Helen is with you now and not “dad”. The difference between you and him is that you have to earn and keep earning Jacks respect, His real dad will have it anyway until Jacks old enough to think otherwise.

I have been through family counselling with my daughter and my ex-wife and it was excellent in helping us sort out problems with my daughter.

I had been a single parent for 9 years, and my daughter was suffering a lot of bullying at school, to do with her size… She is a big lass for her age, 5’ 9" at 15, but at one point weighed 21 stone, caused by comfort eating. 12 months ago me and my ex-wife came to the agreement, with the aid of counselling that it would be better for my daughter to move to her mothers to attend school. She has gone from 43% attendence to 98%, and her weight has dropped significantly , she is now down to a size 16 and still dropping.

Even though she now lives 35 miles away, she still spends plenty of time with me.

And now I have to put up with boyfriend troubles :eek:

Well, I can see where you wanna bang your head off a wall… The only thing I have to add to the mix is has jacks dad + gf spoken to jack about the baby… if they did he might not feel so threatened as its obv to me that his dad wants v little to do with him and jack knows that so a baby would just make him feel worse…Im afraid all I can do is wish you guys luck and hope it gets sorted out one way or another